Purtroppo

Jul 22, 2015,11:56 AM
 

Victor, purtroppo l'orologio è un fake .
E' sempre sgradevole dover dare queste notizie ma credo che sia utile fornire  informazioni, anche se spiacevoli , a chi inizia a collezionare GP d'epoca.
Per determinare  se un Girard Perregaux databile dagli anni 30 ai 70 è originale bisogna per prima cosa analizzare il movimento.
In Gp i calibri montati sono noti e riconoscibili, le identificazioni sono sempre riportate  ( sono comuni a Mimo) e il marchio ha caratteristiche precise.
Esistono alcune eccezioni , a volte alcune caratteristiche mancano... ma mai tutte.
In ogni caso l'eccezione va' attentamente analizzata e difficilmente costituisce motivo di maggiore interesse rispetto allo standard ( non è cosi' per la produzione di altre maison).
Nel tuo orologio non c'e' traccia di questi " marcatori "

Poi si osserva la cassa .
Qui le cose sono piu' complicate .
Si procede osservando gli  indizi ,ma raramente un singolo  particolare è risolutivo .
Anche in questo caso nessun indizio depone a favore dell'originalità :
- Le scritte al fondello sono una stanezza in GP .
- Il marchio all'interno è grossolano e palesemente posticcio.
- ci si apetterebbe una cassa in acciaio  e non cromata come in questo caso
- La numerazione è strana e le forme sono fuori dal data base mentale che mi sono costruito negli anni .... ma devo ammettere che commetto spesso errori smile

Poi si oseervano i componenti accessori.
Generalmete Girard Perregaux all'epoca costruiva  orologi di buon livello, quell'anello in plastica è proprio brutto da vedere e  anche la corona non mi convince ( il marchio non è necessario ).

nfine si cercano tracce di ristampa del quadrante.
Qui devo ammettere che ho un po' tralasciato analisi approfondite perchè  influenzato dalle osservazioni precedenti.

Inevitabilmente bisogna anche considerare la provenienza dell'orologio , a maggior ragione in questo caso.
L'orologio è immediatamente riconoscibile e subito lo si associa ad un preciso venditore della baia.
Ho fatto qualche piccola ricerca.
Il venditore da cui l' hai acquistato il 06-06 ha scambiato un feedback lo scorso anno con Il noto pusher di pseudo GP ........con i punzoni tutti poco incisi in basso , con movimenti improbabili etc etc.....  temo che sia riferito a questo orologio .
Purtroppo sono entrambi italiani ... non è una cosa di cui vado fiero.smile

Che dire ?  mi dispiace molto che la prima esperieza sia stata negativa.

Se ti puo' consolare malgrado collezioni il marchio da 20 anni e possieda letteralmente centinaia di Gp d'epoca , mi capita ancora di commettere errori o imprudenze dettate dalla curiosità per modelli  che non ho.
Ciao
Giuseppe

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Comments: view entire thread

 

Could somebody help me to identify this old GP?

 
 By: vnaves : July 19th, 2015-12:17
A couple of weeks ago I bought in an auction at the web my first GP: a very modest and simple piece, but in my opinion beautiful and at a very good price. A manual winding, steel case, blue screen, seconds at six, with a not home made, neither ETA or simi...  

Welcome here!

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 19th, 2015-12:42
Hi Vnaves and welcome here! I moved your post from the HoMe forum to this dedicated GP forum. About your watch, interesting look. I never saw one like it - which doesn't mean it did not exist. There are many GP's from the 60's I never saw yet... Could you...  

About the sphere & more

 
 By: vnaves : July 19th, 2015-17:55
Thank you very much, Blomman. At this moment I cant get another pic, because the time piece is at my watch repairer to clean it, etc, but there is only written "17 jewels" and below "Incabloc". In the rear cover there are a serial number: 13083-1 in very ... 

Please ask the watchmaker to take some photos of....

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 20th, 2015-01:28
The movement and the dial. Beteen the lugs at 6 there should be a reference number. Best Blomman

Stamp under balance wheel...

 
 By: J-Mac : July 19th, 2015-18:43
...looks like a U T in a Shield, which would be UNITAS. Confirmation from OP will help. Sincerely, John

Additionally, the shock absorber...

 
 By: J-Mac : July 19th, 2015-18:56
...doesn't appear to be an INCABLOC, but something similar to a CONTRACHOC. Others more experienced may speak up and issue more definitive info. Sincerely, John

I agree, John

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 20th, 2015-01:30
But let's wait for some more photos. Best Blomman

Data, pics, and thanks.

 
 By: vnaves : July 20th, 2015-06:35
First of all, thanks to everyone for your help. I send new pics, but I’m afraid I’m not the best of photographers. Between the lugs at six, neither twelve, dear Blomman, there is no any reference number. The numeral is inside the case, below the seal, and...  

The only record I can find about GP using....

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 20th, 2015-14:53
Unitas movements with Incabloc and Sub-second is the GP 993 based on the Unitas 6431 which was in use in for only one year, 1970. What puzzles me is the following: 1. Normally you would not see the UT stamp on the movement, GP would do their own decoratio... 

Movement looks like a...

 
 By: J-Mac : July 20th, 2015-19:02
...Unitas 6376 (or variant). Sincerely, John

I can't find any references that ...

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 21st, 2015-00:13
GP used Unitas 6376, but both are very similar in layout. Thank you for your inpuit, John! Best Blomman

At the end of the day.

 
 By: vnaves : July 21st, 2015-04:21
After having a look at google images, it looks much more likely as an Unitas 6376. Then there is the question about the use of the word Incabloc... I had a look at the oficial GP page and they charge me 200 swiss francs (192€) just for identifying and giv... 

Vintage Watches

 
 By: J-Mac : July 21st, 2015-16:21
Victor, I hope you have not taken my posts negatively. My matter-of-fact answers could be construed as cold and clinical (it is my engineer brain). Please accept my apology if I offended you. When it comes to vintage passion, there are few forums that hav... 

Not at all.

 
 By: vnaves : July 21st, 2015-18:05
Dear John: No, of course I didn't feel upset for anything you said. Not even I'd appreciated any tone cynical or offensive in your words. I'm not english-speaking native, but I use to understand and catch the second intentions of the words, except in the ... 

Dear John,

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 21st, 2015-23:03
Your comment were very helpful and I hope you join us more often. No need for novels if the information share helps in the right dirrection! :) Best Blomman

Most brands ...

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 21st, 2015-23:00
Charge for getting into their archives. Which is unfortunet but understandable since most brands only have paper archives for their vintage watches... To search takes time.... I am very happy you have found us, Victor. Hope to read much more from you! :) ... 

I saw this watch in Ebay, look!

 
 By: Jesuser68 : August 17th, 2015-02:20
This watch is fake. Best Jes ...  

Yes, I would stay away! [nt]

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : August 17th, 2015-03:00

Purtroppo

 
 By: robert11a2001 : July 22nd, 2015-11:56
Victor, purtroppo l'orologio è un fake . E' sempre sgradevole dover dare queste notizie ma credo che sia utile fornire informazioni, anche se spiacevoli , a chi inizia a collezionare GP d'epoca. Per determinare se un Girard Perregaux databile dagli anni 3... 

Thank you for the confirmation, Giuseppe.

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 22nd, 2015-13:43
Sad news but good to get confirmation. Good to have an expert here! Best Blomman

Hi Victor

 
 By: crown comfort : July 22nd, 2015-12:49
a warm welcome here from me as well. Let me assure you that similar things have happened to all of us. I do echo Guiseppe's assessment, but there is not only bad news. For one: you found this forum :) For two, most people tend to learn from mistakes and d... 

+1 on all you said, CC! We all made this ....

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 22nd, 2015-13:45
And we all will do it again... But that will not stop us - because the pleasure when we find a good one is too big to be without! :) Best Blomman

Perfect!!!

 
 By: vnaves : July 22nd, 2015-16:47
First of all my most sincere and enormous thanks to Giuseppe for that huge work and the lot of time he took for me. Great masterclass he gave. That's not such a pity. The waste of money wasn't so big, the lesson I've received is priceless to learn to step...  

Your second example.....

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 23rd, 2015-00:12
Victor, Happy to know you are not beaten down by the GP you got. As you say, cheap learning money, if Rolex or Patek..... As for your second example - GP did use goldplated cases and also goldplated top with steel bottom case. I have not seen the stamp in... 

I agree

 
 By: crown comfort : July 23rd, 2015-01:07
I will not comment on the Piaget, just don't know enough. The GP seems okay, I know the seller from the Philippines, have bought one watch there before. That one is mid to late 70ies and yes, in fact most vintage gold GPs are only gold-plated, but quality... 

Great!

 
 By: vnaves : July 23rd, 2015-03:17
As a result of all of this, I contacted the seller, who hadn't also the lesser idea about vintage GP's (he bought it at another auction and the watch fits very little for his wrist) and he offered to bring my money back, so we are starting the paces to un... 

Victor, money is not what counts here....

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 23rd, 2015-12:48
In this forum - PASSION is everything! :) Some have one or no watch, some have hundreds.... Doesn't matter, we are all here for the same thing - watches! And to join the forum is for free... :) Best Blomman

Totally right.

 
 By: vnaves : July 23rd, 2015-18:00
...but my gunpowder is limited, so -and grateful to the advice about the new GP I had under surveillance, then I thought it was another fake, but another mate confirmed it seems to be a real GP 9628 ellipse- and after a bit of investigation, that money, b... 

Please feel free to share some of your other watches as well! :)

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : July 24th, 2015-01:20
We have dedicated Omega and Zenith forums here and for the brands we don't have decicated forums, there is always the HoMe forum where you may post any brand! :) Best Blomman

Sorry!

 
 By: vnaves : July 24th, 2015-05:34
Sorry, dear Blomman. I was just telling a little story about how I started in this. Of course never tried to flaunt. The brands I refered were buyed the most of them second hand or old -yes, I mean old fasioned- or vintage pieces. And never beyond than $1...